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johnb
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 Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2010 1:43 pm Post subject: Hellish NDE |
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The first Hellish NDE i read about were of mafia hitmen. They said they fely like demons were tearing their souls from their bodies. Death scenes in "Ghost" seem to reflect those experiences.
THEN I READ about bullies having NDE and having to feel all the pain they caused. One said when he died he felt like demons were tearing off his flesh. Then he called on Jesus to save him and was in the light.
But he still felt all the pain he caused. I think he was the one Jesus said would have to carry that pain for the rest of his life.
Another was an atheist who was suffocating and was anxious to die so the pain would stop. But when she died the pain didn't stop. She felt she was all alone in utter darkness w/a train rnning eternally through her head and she deserved that because she had never done an unselfish thing.
GOD saved her and she turned her life around. |
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Cloe
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| Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2010 2:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | The first Hellish NDE i read about were of mafia hitmen. They said they fely like demons were tearing their souls from their bodies. Death scenes in "Ghost" seem to reflect those experiences.
THEN I READ about bullies having NDE and having to feel all the pain they caused. One said when he died he felt like demons were tearing off his flesh. Then he called on Jesus to save him and was in the light.
But he still felt all the pain he caused. I think he was the one Jesus said would have to carry that pain for the rest of his life.
Another was an atheist who was suffocating and was anxious to die so the pain would stop. But when she died the pain didn't stop. She felt she was all alone in utter darkness w/a train rnning eternally through her head and she deserved that because she had never done an unselfish thing.
GOD saved her and she turned her life around. |
First, we don't have a body any longer when we die, so there is no body to feel any pain whatsoever. It would then appear that their brain is responsible for their scenarios.
Also, there is a enormous discrepancy if there were actually a hell, and it goes like this,..
If a hell existed then it stands to reason that someone that someone else loves will eventually be put into hell. If that person truly loves that individual then that person will not allow their loved one to be tortured and there will be disruption in heaven. That person will have to be removed from disrupting the others in heaven, so that requires some sort of removal and that person is most likely connected to another person that loves that person and there will again be disruption, until all of heaven will be empty except those people who cared for no one.
In other words, if any one can walk through heaven's gates knowing that anyone is in hell, then those are the people that deserve hell. Thus hell and heaven cannot exist.
If there were only heavens and everyone had their own heavens then the information remains separated and no new information is ever generated, as the originator is the determiner. Each system would then be a completed revolving recycled contained system and the originator would never evolve to know more then it did.
Infinities cancel such scenarios and they appear to be generated from a closed classical system called the brain, when that brain is triggered to maintain that energy in this current system. |
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Cloe
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| Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2010 3:19 pm Post subject: |
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| I should clarify my last line as the brain does not generate infinities as the brain is a finite mechanism. Scenarios such the ones mentioned are what the brain seems to generate (not infinities). |
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johnb
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| Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2010 4:26 pm Post subject: Hellish NDE |
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Yes, You do raise a lot of good points. One aspect of "Hell" seems to be the necessity of experiencing all the pain one has caused. While God is AllForgiving, our Souls have a more difficult time with forgiveness.
Anyway, hitler and stalin will have very long life reviews because the pain they caused still continues. For example, i feel i carry some of the pain of Anne Frank, but people like that are rare.
GODdoes not keep people in Hell. God's Love and Forgiveness is alway available, contrary to what many Christians believe, BUT those who keep themseves in the Hell of Hate, Hell of Attacment or Hell of intellect can turn to the Light at any time and from what i've read, there are "travel teachers" who visit these places and try to coax these people out. I can certainly see myself doing that.
Once a teacher ALWAYS a reacher. i pray that helps and deeply appreciate your input. |
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Cloe
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| Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2010 5:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Yes, You do raise a lot of good points. One aspect of "Hell" seems to be the necessity of experiencing all the pain one has caused. While God is AllForgiving, our Souls have a more difficult time with forgiveness.
Anyway, hitler and stalin will have very long life reviews because the pain they caused still continues. For example, i feel i carry some of the pain of Anne Frank, but people like that are rare.
GODdoes not keep people in Hell. God's Love and Forgiveness is alway available, contrary to what many Christians believe, BUT those who keep themseves in the Hell of Hate, Hell of Attacment or Hell of intellect can turn to the Light at any time and from what i've read, there are "travel teachers" who visit these places and try to coax these people out. I can certainly see myself doing that. |
If you have guilt, then that may be played out in your own mind.
What happens after death is that we remember that this is connective and that those that we hurt or helped are in fact us.
I had no desire for punishment of those that had hurt me, in fact I was quite amazed at my diversities and found it to be funny (I'd guess that some could associate that with joy).
Hitler and Stalin are examples of human beings experiences given those foundations and choices. There is nothing to punish once we die, zilch. The body is finish and begins to decompose and our information is connective to which results in further expressions throughout infinite systems |
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johnb
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| Posted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 12:28 pm Post subject: Hellish NDE |
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| I read a Hellish NDE of a nazi guard who put Jews in gas chambers. Finally a Jewish woman looked at him with love and forgiveness as she went to be gassed. Her look haunted him for the rest of his life and into his NDE as he did not feel worthy of forgivess. Until he forgave himself he could not enter into the Light. Hw finally did. |
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Marilyn86
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| Posted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 1:40 pm Post subject: Re: Hellish NDE |
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| johnb wrote: | | I read a Hellish NDE of a nazi guard who put Jews in gas chambers. Finally a Jewish woman looked at him with love and forgiveness as she went to be gassed. Her look haunted him for the rest of his life and into his NDE as he did not feel worthy of forgivess. Until he forgave himself he could not enter into the Light. Hw finally did. |
Source? I'm asking because it sounds like you made up this story. |
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johnb
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| Posted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 9:12 pm Post subject: Hellish NDE |
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| No, the nazi guard story is in Into the Light |
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Tradewiz50
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| Posted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 9:22 pm Post subject: Re: Hellish NDE |
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| johnb wrote: | | No, the nazi guard story is in Into the Light |
Have a link?
_________________
-Religion is for people who are afraid of Hell.
Spirituality, is for people who have already been there... |
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Marilyn86
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| Posted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 12:10 pm Post subject: |
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okay, so I googled "Into the Light" and ended up on the amazon site. I read reviews of this book, some guy wrote this
| Quote: | The sixth story is about an ex-Nazi who killed people in concentration camps. He was in a coma for 48 hours, during which it felt he spent a lifetime in a dark cave with Roman and Nazi soldiers who had done mass killings. (why only Romans and Nazis was probably because that is what as an individual he would relate to - he would know why he was there). Eventually he saw the people he killed in a different part of the place, where the light was shining, and he wanted to apologise to them. He was told that he was already forgiven, and just needed to forgive himself. But he couldn't forgive himself for what he had done, so they allowed him to relive all the pain and suffering from every one of his single victims. (This is commonly known as a Life Review in NDEs for those who don't know). And after the spirits of all his victims finished comforting him, he came out of his coma. No one put him in hell...he was there because of how he felt about what he did. But the end result is this:
'He was bathed in unconditional love; it permeated his entire being, and a message filled his cells with the understanding that God had allowed everything that has happened in order to teach humanity to stand up against evil. He was told that, because of free will, man was destined to experience darkness and goodness. God's plan for the independent soul was to learn to evolve away from hatred, fear, arrogance and pride, and move towards pure love.' - p.95
And this ex-Nazi is the one who said, 'Jesus, Buddha and Muhammad...are all there, but you don't call them by those names. They're just light beings, expressions of God's energy.' |
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Into-Light-Afterlife-Pre-death-Experiences/dp/1564149722/ref=ntt_at_ep_dpi_1
after reading this, I decided to look up the author of the book, John Lerma.. I ended up on his blog, spent some time reading it.. he actually sounded honest and trustworthy, much of what he said made senses. I couldn't find anything that suggests he's a fraud who takes advantages of believers until.. I visited another site and read a bizarre description of him
(His blog: http://www.drjohnlerma.com/wordpress2/ )
| Quote: | Dr. John Lerma has been with us before, and his popularity has brought him back, this time to be interviewed by Anne Strieber on his latest book, Learning from the Light. As a hospice physician, he is exposed to the dying every day of his life, and has come to some startling conclusions about what happens when we die, and also why the idea of the persistence of the soul may have a sound scientific basis.
But Dr. Lerma goes beyond that. He is also the doctor who attempted to remove Whitley's implant, and he talks more than he ever has before about that experience, what he found, and what the very shocked pathologist thought when he examined the fragment that Dr. Lerma did obtain. Anne Strieber talks frankly about the fact that Whitley has learned to use the implant, and tells a little bit about what they both think it might be doing.
Dr. Lerma also talks about a surprising aspect of his career: his experience as hospice doctor for a very powerful and well-connected man who knew many extraordinary secrets, including the truth about the Kennedy assassination and Roswell. |
http://www.unknowncountry.com/dreamland/?id=442
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gNBI-2lwLLE
This video shows him and Whitley Strieber discussing Whitley's implant but since I'm deaf i couldn't understand what they were saying. but I looked at their behaviors in the video and read comments below. if this is a hoax, then these two people are very good at acting and lying.
They are either some honest people or narcissistic psychopaths who take advantage of believers.. |
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Marilyn86
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johnb
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| Posted: Fri Mar 19, 2010 9:51 am Post subject: |
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| Yes, i was skeptical of all the talk about angels but that night saw an angel in my bedroom. End skepticism! |
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Marilyn86
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| Posted: Thu Mar 25, 2010 5:02 pm Post subject: |
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Just because I think it's true that some dying people see angels doesn't mean I believe in angels.. No, I believe that angels and other visions just exist in the mind of the dying patient.
Some dying people report that they see bugs crawl on the walls and other unpleasant things which Dr Hammargren said is because of the drugs they are being given.
"Some patients describe bugs crawling on the walls and seeing things that aren't pleasant, which Hammargren often finds is a reaction to the drugs her patients are being given."
http://www.deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,635185305,00.html?pg=2
This tells me that it's unlikely that what dying people see (even pleasant ones) are actually there. |
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Marilyn86
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| Posted: Thu Mar 25, 2010 5:10 pm Post subject: |
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When I read John Lerma's blog pages, I got the impression that he was a honest doctor who just listened to what his dying patients told him, then he tried to interpret it and wrote it in his book.. tried to spread the message.. i saw it as his belief.. but now i see he also claims that he tried to remove Whitley's "ET implant", etc..
I must also say that the Nazi guard story sounds too good to be true. If you ask me, I think that John Lerma made up this and several other stories in his book. |
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astrobee
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Location: Milwaukee, WI
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| Posted: Fri Mar 26, 2010 2:57 pm Post subject: Re: Hellish NDE |
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| johnb wrote: | Yes, You do raise a lot of good points. One aspect of "Hell" seems to be the necessity of experiencing all the pain one has caused. While God is AllForgiving, our Souls have a more difficult time with forgiveness.
Anyway, hitler and stalin will have very long life reviews because the pain they caused still continues. For example, i feel i carry some of the pain of Anne Frank, but people like that are rare.
GODdoes not keep people in Hell. God's Love and Forgiveness is alway available, contrary to what many Christians believe, BUT those who keep themseves in the Hell of Hate, Hell of Attacment or Hell of intellect can turn to the Light at any time and from what i've read, there are "travel teachers" who visit these places and try to coax these people out. I can certainly see myself doing that.
Once a teacher ALWAYS a reacher. i pray that helps and deeply appreciate your input. |
johnb, very well put. Exactly what I believe.
Ironic it's mostly 'religious' folk that preach a God who tortures for all of eternity. |
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johnb
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| Posted: Sat Mar 27, 2010 3:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Marilyn, i was skeptical of Lerma's angels too until i saw one. It semms had he made up/exaggerated stories somebody would have squealed on him. I didn't read anything in his book that contradicts religion or NDE or other DBV. "Truth is stranger than fiction" |
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Kaitei_Shonen_Marien
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| Posted: Sat Mar 27, 2010 4:43 pm Post subject: |
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From what I can glean of the contents of that book on Amazon's preview feature, I would rate it in the lowest 10% of books on the subject.
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SS
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| Posted: Sat Mar 27, 2010 9:49 pm Post subject: |
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My overall skepticism increases daily that there is anything "livable" beyond this temporal sensory world (especially in light of all the half baked flim flam out there). 
The well is running dry. |
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Kaitei_Shonen_Marien
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| Posted: Sat Mar 27, 2010 10:34 pm Post subject: |
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Some new direction is needed in order for the underlying issue / question to get anywhere.
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johnb
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| Posted: Sun Mar 28, 2010 1:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Kaitei, my lowest 10% are very high but it is DBV more than NDE and i can understand skepticism |
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